Retaken Down

[one-nil]

Originally Posted by Gneq

We already have a fantastic trio of judges - Leah, Eugene, and Jerome - and all we need is the name for the reality show. Here are some suggestions:

Dancing with the Stars of David
Top Deli Chef
Survivor of the Great Flood (a.k.a. 40 Days of Extreme Makeover)
The Oy Vey Factor
The Amazing Chosen Race
America's Next Messiah

Don't forget "My Super Sweet 16...[yiddish inflection]But for You, 13![/yiddish]"

[EugeneF]

Originally Posted by one-nil

Don't forget "My Super Sweet 16...[yiddish inflection]But for You, 13![/yiddish]"

Not Yiddish but Sephardic...in the case of Neil Sedaka.

[Leah]

I thought Eugene already had a show-- The Biggest Schmoozer.

Well, anyway, Hi Jerome! I thought your response was highly politic, given that Eugene had asked you to referee. But I think my point has been proven-- you can't simply tell by looking at someone. Your father had associations with particular aspects of Hitchens' features that made blips on his jewdar; and to you, Al Franken looks like people you know who are Jewish, but not to me, although he has something of the bulvon about him. Norm Coleman actually looks more Jewish to me, but he almost fools you with that Jr. at the end of his name-- I mean, why weren't his parents superstitious enough to protect him from the Angel of Death? (I realize the Ochs and Sulzberger families have arranged for some kind of angel-of-death dispensation but in exchange they have to accept nicknames like Pinch, Punch, Pancho, etc.) Oh, and where, by the way, do John Kerry and Wesley Clark fit into the scheme of things? We know that they are half Jewish, but there is nothing whatsoever about the way they look that would have given me a clue. And by the way, if you can imagine Joe Lieberman without the voice (hard to do, I grant) I don't think that he looks especially Jewish either.

Now, as for Gneq-- or Sven Sinclair, a nom de guise if there ever was one-- although he has a hint of diastema (not as big as mine), a possible nose, and lord knows a Talmudic love and terrier-like zest for grasping an argument and running with it, I myself am hesitant to say whether he's a member of the tribe. Although I think that if I knew nothing about him I might well say he looks Jewish. But that's my point-- Jews look like too many other people, and too many other people look like Jews. Gneq, care to out yourself one way or another?

Here's my theory on Madeleine Albright (which I may have expounded in an earlier thread somewhere). It's convoluted but feels right:

1) Middle-European upper class Jewish families of the pre-war era wanted to be as German and cultured as possible.

2) Also in that era, the German intelligentsia were largely Anglophilic.

3) Therefore, to emulate cultured Germans, you needed to emulate the British: stiff upper-lip; compartmentalize into complete and eternal unconscious denial all painful, inconvenient realities.

4) Being Jewish became one of those painful, inconvenient realities.

My father's Hungarian-Jewish family had tendencies in this direction (my mother, whose ancestors came from Vilna, did too but that was from being Vassar class of '33). I had a high school friend in NYC whose family did not come to the US from Hungary until the 1950s, and they were like this too, including never thinking of themselves as Jewish (having been baptized Roman Catholic as a prudent measure, like getting vaccinated) although they were. In New York, of course, the rules changed, so they eventually decided to adapt (my friend had a small, turned-up nose and dark red hair).

As the Reverend Gomes said on Skip Gates' PBS show about ancestry based on the DNA of prominent African-Americans, having been informed that he had paternal Jewish ancestry: Oh well, everybody has some Jewish ancestry. (Or words to that effect. It sounded impressive in his Boston Brahmin accent).

[MDaunt]

Joe Lieberman? A dear ringer for Harpo Marx.

[Rex Kramer]

Originally Posted by Leah

As the Reverend Gomes said on Skip Gates' PBS show about ancestry based on the DNA of prominent African-Americans, having been informed that he had paternal Jewish ancestry: Oh well, everybody has some Jewish ancestry. (Or words to that effect. It sounded impressive in his Boston Brahmin accent).

The good Reverend taught humility by telling a story about how his family had reacted when he opened his acceptance letter and announced excitedly that he was going to Harvard [Divinity School]. Everyone around him cheered excitedly and there was much slapping of backs and shaking of hands. Then joy changed to puzzlement as he began to talk about finding a place to live in Cambridge.

"What are you talking about?" his grandfather asked.

"Well, Harvard is located in Cambridge."

Much rolling of eyes and shaking of heads, and the mood became greatly muted. Grandfather said, "Oh, we thought you said you were going to Howard."

Rex

[Leah]

Originally Posted by MDaunt

Joe Lieberman? A dear ringer for Harpo Marx.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...l_portrait.jpg

http://www.mad-hatter.de/old/marx/harpo.htm

I don't really think so. Lieberman has that cleft chin and goofy smile-- more like Howdy Doody, I think, while not quite in the Separated at Birth category.

http://collection.movingimage.us/med...541_medium.jpg

Although you know who does look separated at birth? Franchot Tone and Johnny Depp.

[Gneq]

Leah, you were wise to hedge your bets. No Jewish ancestry as far as I know, but I've been asked if I was Jewish enough times that I thought I could confuse the judges. (I also find that Ezra Klein looks remarkably like me of 10 years ago.)

Your skepticism definitely scores some points. On the other hand, I agree with a lot of Eugene's and Jerome's observations. And this is obviously not limited to one tribe; we humans have an uncanny ability to tell at a quick glance who belongs to which tribe. That is probably an evolved feature we'd be a lot happier without.

[Gneq]

Originally Posted by MDaunt

Joe Lieberman? A dear (sic) ringer for Harpo Marx.

If I could only have Harpo's speeches dubbed over Lieberman's...

[Leah]

Originally Posted by Gneq

Leah, you were wise to hedge your bets. No Jewish ancestry as far as I know, but I've been asked if I was Jewish enough times that I thought I could confuse the judges. (I also find that Ezra Klein looks remarkably like me of 10 years ago.)

Your skepticism definitely scores some points. On the other hand, I agree with a lot of Eugene's and Jerome's observations. And this is obviously not limited to one tribe; we humans have an uncanny ability to tell at a quick glance who belongs to which tribe. That is probably an evolved feature we'd be a lot happier without.

I agree. But as the tribes blend, it's gets harder for the quick glance to work. Take a look at Obama's sister, for instance-- half-Indonesian, half-WASP; looks Hispanic to my quick glance.

On the other hand, Ezra Klein's little bio is as Jewish as it gets: "...cooks a mean kung pao and likes to talk about health care policy." The publications, the Chinese food, the tongue-in-cheek of writing it while setting the vibrissae of the Jewish mother and potential mother-in-law a-quiver; wow.

[MDaunt]

No fair - that's a very young Harpo. Sorry, I just don't see Joe as Howdy Doody.

Generally agree with your point, though. Maybe I'm just not acculturated to look for it, growing up in a small town (we had a synagogue, but there weren't enough male...errr...members to make up a...errr...quorum (seem to have lost a couple of words from my vocabulary somewhere)). But it's not something that springs to mind when I meet someone.



[dead/dear - what's the difference?]

[Leah]

Originally Posted by MDaunt

No fair - that's a very young Harpo.

He's in his mid-forties in that picture. Actually, in the pictures of him meaningfully older-- say 60ish-- he has a face very similar to Paul Michael Glaser's, which is unsurprising.

FYI: minyan; not to be confused with minion.

[mams99]

Originally Posted by Gneq

Leah, you were wise to hedge your bets. No Jewish ancestry as far as I know, but I've been asked if I was Jewish enough times that I thought I could confuse the judges. (I also find that Ezra Klein looks remarkably like me of 10 years ago.)

Your skepticism definitely scores some points. On the other hand, I agree with a lot of Eugene's and Jerome's observations. And this is obviously not limited to one tribe; we humans have an uncanny ability to tell at a quick glance who belongs to which tribe. That is probably an evolved feature we'd be a lot happier without.

Hmmm... maybe your great grandmother's mystery man lover from Austria might be the key. Though, you look too much like your grandfather and not your grandmother to give that much creedence. Though can we ever really KNOW our lineage? There's always been lots of hanky panky going on.

Gneq looks 'mostly' like his father's side. His father's brother married a Jewish woman. They had two sons. The oldest looked like the father. The younger like the mother. Gneq and his older first cousin look a lot alike (kind of scary how much they look alike)... and his cousin IS 1/2 Jewish - though the 'look' is from the non-Jewish side... interesting.

Here's a better pic of Gneq as Borat...and he does look a lot like Sasha Baron Cohen - same build and height. We only darkened/filled in his eyebrows and moustache.

http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g8...t=IMG_2344.jpg

And interestingly, when we were traveling to Italy a few years ago, we stopped in a small village in Tuscany to have lunch. The person at the cash register look so much like Gneq, just at 18, that it was shocking. Even he said it was a crazy resemblance. I tease him regularly about his "son" in Italy since he was traveling with his girlfriend about the time that young man was probably conceived... I keep asking him, "Are you sure that you didn't find an Italian lover?" As far as I know, Gneq has no Italian ancestry, and I'm assuming that young man did....

But... I'll assert again, people like to mess around, so most of us are a lot more mixed than we realize, but yes it is true, we can pinpoint tribes quite accurately most of the time. Dh's ex-girlfriend was able to say quite confidently that I was German (and I mostly am) just after meeting me.

[Gneq]

Originally Posted by mams99

We only darkened/filled in his eyebrows and added the moustache.

Er... that sounds as if the mustache was fake.

[mams99]

Originally Posted by Gneq

Er... that sounds as if the mustache was fake.

Gosh, I FORGOT you grew a moustache for that costume... DOY!!! Yes, we darkened the moustache as his facial hair is red... or did you just shave your beard? Ack... I forget! This was during the time I was still not getting much sleep due to dear little kid!

ETA: OK, fixed original post... yes, Gneq can grow a moustache and thankfully it disappeared after that

[Gneq]

Originally Posted by mams99

Gosh, I FORGOT you grew a moustache for that costume... DOY!!! Yes, we darkened the moustache as his facial hair is red...

So next time I'll go as Ali G, and yo, 15 months later you doesn't remembah I has got a tattoo on my... ah, never mind.

[JyV'92]

Yes, norm coleman looked jewish to me as well.

John turturro and aida - not at all.

I was brought up hearing that the mark my folks looked for was more the eyes than anything else.

Alicia silverstone looks like a cousin of mine.

For those who don't know - there are a lot of red-headed and blonde jews as well. There's a Shelley winters for every Hedy Lamarr.

M Daunt yes. D Melia, no.

Kerry - pretty much, yeah. Teresa, not so much.

BTW Aidan Quinn and Peter Gallegher - neither one is, but both passed for me, in Avalon and The Player respectively.

Turturro and Pacino, not really.

to me

Hi Michael Daunt.

[Gneq]

Originally Posted by JyV'92

Turturro and Pacino, not really.

There is the Etruscan look, with an aquiline nose, quite common in Italy.

[EugeneF]

Originally Posted by JyV'92

Yes, norm coleman looked jewish to me as well.

Even after the nose job.

Of course, Coleman would claim--as do they all--the rhinoplasty was for a deviated septum. "Deviated septum" is apparently the medical term for looking Jewish.

And Michael Daunt's welcome presence should inspire this topic: people who look Canadian.

Eugene

[MDaunt]

Originally Posted by EugeneF

And Michael Daunt's welcome presence should inspire this topic: people who look Canadian.

Eugene

Barack Obama would look right at home in Southern Ontario. Everybody looks Canadian these days.

[TomKBaltimoreBoy]

Originally Posted by EugeneF

Even after the nose job.

Of course, Coleman would claim--as do they all--the rhinoplasty was for a deviated septum. "Deviated septum" is apparently the medical term for looking Jewish.

And Michael Daunt's welcome presence should inspire this topic: people who look Canadian.

Eugene

Yes, and Coleman is claiming that the septum's ballot should be counted -- even if it's no longer deviant.