Harry in SM3: Friend or Goblin?

[THWIPP!]

<SPOILER>

Eventhough Sam Raimi has completed the general storyline for the next movie, he wants to make us think he's unsure about what to do with Harry. This is from his interview with BBC:

"Harry will be a problem, but I'm not certain if Harry will become the Goblin or not. The thing I'm really not certain about is if he comes to feel, "Now I have the means to destroy Spider-Man - I was too weak before but now I have a way and I will become the man that my father always dreamed I could be." Or, does he feel: "Now I understand why Spider-Man had to destroy him, because he was a mass murderer and now my anger can drain away from me." It could be an answer to a question and it ends the pursuit, but I'm not certain which way to go."

I think he could wait until Spider-Man 4 for Harry as GG... but definitely making him the Goblin at some point. What do you think?

[sguy]

I'm not too fond of the ending of sp2 with Ock. If they go by the comics with what really happened to Harry it would almost be a repeat of what happened to Ock.
I guess he could wait but if he's not doing 4 he should be the guy to help tell Harry's story and give it closure.

[sguy]

I also would like to see a couple years go by and Harry is married to Liz Allen with his son but there might not be enough time between the movies. Maybe a mention of Pete being the best man or not.
If the pursuit ends it at least has to end with Harry beating Spidey. Be it if he dies or just leaves.(I prefer the comics)

[OctoShock]

I was wondering at the end of the movie, (2)...

**SPOILER said many times now**


















When Harry finds the Goblin gear, was that setting a stage for the next one that he will be the goblin, or, after all this, he finally knows why Spider-Man killed his father, you know? Like he's standing there knowing that his dad was the Green Goblin.


Oh, and how do you get little quotes and pictures down here?

[SPlover]

I really think the green goblin needs to stay in his grave. It gets too predictable and you want a surprise and you want the feeling that you never know what is going to happen next.

[OctoShock]

Originally posted by OctoShock
Oh, and how do you get little quotes and pictures down here?
Yeah, that was mine. Seriously though, could anyone please help me?

I guess it'll be all right in my opinion if they bring another Goblin, even though I'd prefer them not to, but they change the mask.

[black_cat42]

If you follow the comics, neither Ock, or Norman Osborne are really dead...

I'd like to see Harry as the Goblin at some point. It would make for savage character conflict. Then I want to see him getting help and making up with Peter.

[Ray the spiderman]

I say goblin.

[sguy]

Originally posted by black_cat42
If you follow the comics, neither Ock, or Norman Osborne are really dead...

I'd like to see Harry as the Goblin at some point. It would make for savage character conflict. Then I want to see him getting help and making up with Peter.


You're right. Norman and Ock aren't dead but Harry is. If you go by the comics Harry makes up with Peter shortly before his death. Norman went out the right way. He came back yeah but that was for the clone saga. In fact,Ock died too and came back.

[clay391]

Originally posted by sguy
I'm not too fond of the ending of sp2 with Ock. If they go by the comics with what really happened to Harry it would almost be a repeat of what happened to Ock.
I guess he could wait but if he's not doing 4 he should be the guy to help tell Harry's story and give it closure.

I never read the comic of Harry's death but I have seen web pages stating Harry died from the toxin. It no where says Harry drowned.

[sguy]

Originally posted by clay391
I never read the comic of Harry's death but I have seen web pages stating Harry died from the toxin. It no where says Harry drowned.

I don't mean the death was the same but the means are. A good person gone bad who sees the error of his ways before he saves the day and dies.

[Webrina1]

Hmm........what if Harry goes made............and does not come out of his mansion.........unless somone else is terroizing the city like the Lizard he begins to think that Spider-man will 'fail' and wants to help out lIz- out of madness is torn by what he 'say' and what happend.....SPOILER________________........who knows.IN HARRY's mind: OCK could have told 'peter' he would be killed if he wasn't prisoner becuase Ock faliled and couln't find spidey so he took his best friend tied him up loosly of course then deliverd him..........cheating Harry out of his 'revenge. TAH DAH! Just a guess.

[THWIPP!]

I don't think so, because Peter doesn't deny he's spidey to Harry.

Basically, Harry does know:
> Pete (best friend) = Spider-Man
> Norman (dad) = Green Goblin

And he still thinks Spider-Man killed his dad.
What does he do now? What would you do?

I think something else should happpen to push Harry over the edge and make him the new goblin--now that he knows he is GG Jr.

(I don't remember how he takes that step in the comics).

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
I think something else should happpen to push Harry over the edge and make him the new goblin--now that he knows he is GG Jr.
Does he really need something else to push him over the edge? I think he's been through enough. They have already made it clear that he's totally obsessed with Spider-Man and the death of his father. That hate has consumed him. He's definitely not all there mentally as it is. If they decide to go the Harry = second Green Goblin route, it's already been set up well enough.

However, it is entirely possible that they won't have the Goblin in this movie. It makes sense that Harry could forgive Spidey (Peter) for killing his father. Remember, Harry didn't realize that his father was the Green Goblin until the very end of the second movie. Maybe now he realizes that Spider-Man did what he had to do, because his father (as the Green Goblin) had become a murderer.

[sguy]

In the comics I seem to remember Harry seeing his father actually killed by the glider. The formula he took definetly helped drive Harry nuts.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515

It makes sense that Harry could forgive Spidey (Peter) for killing his father.

Well, that's the point. He hates Spider-Man but he couldn't kill Peter when he had the chance. The fact that he knows that they are the same is what makes me think that something else should happen before Harry can become the goblin.

It would be different if Harry didn't know. His motive would then be revenge against Spider-man alone.

In the movie, Norman's motive to become the goblin was revenge because of what was being done to him and his company (add accidental insanity to that and... voilá! The Green Goblin). With Harry it's different. There's more internal conflict in his motive and no insanity.

I think it's gotten weird with so many people knowing Spidey's identity so soon. (Again, I don't remember how it all plays out in the comics...)

[sguy]

Let's see..Goblin found out in 39 and "died" in 122. Ock didn't find out till the 90's and appeared in 3. Harry found out in 135 became the Goblin in 136 and died in Spectacular in the late 80-early 90's.
Harry died in the comics as a hero. He knew who Pete was but always tortured him by threatening to tell the world. (Norman had amnesia) Harry took the ultimate version of the Goblin formula and pricked Spidey with a paralyzing dart. I think there was bomb in the house were they were fighting. He left Spidey,and made sure his wife,son and Mj were safe. Harry would have killed Spidey. Mj convinced Harry that he was Pete's friend by using the word family. Harry realized he would be killing his friend,flew back in and grabbed Spidey. The ambulance arrived and Harry died on the stretcher succumbing to the strong drugs he took.

[seeker515]

Just because something happened in the comics doesn't mean that it will happen that way in the movies...

In the comics, Spidey has web-shooters... ;)

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
Well, that's the point. He hates Spider-Man but he couldn't kill Peter when he had the chance. The fact that he knows that they are the same is what makes me think that something else should happen before Harry can become the goblin.

It would be different if Harry didn't know. His motive would then be revenge against Spider-man alone.
I think it was the shock of seeing the face of his friend Peter under the mask of his enemy Spider-Man that kept Harry from killing him.

However, that doesn't mean that he couldn't still want revenge later, after he has recovered from his initial shock and there is time for everything to sink in. Only now, if he wants revenge, it will be much easier because he knows who Spider-Man really is, knows the people he is close to, and can use them to his advantage.

Just because Harry dropped the knife doesn't mean that all is forgiven and he and Peter are back to being best friends.

Originally posted by THWIPP!
In the movie, Norman's motive to become the goblin was revenge because of what was being done to him and his company (add accidental insanity to that and... voilá! The Green Goblin). With Harry it's different. There's more internal conflict in his motive and no insanity.
No insanity??? He was having delusions... seeing his dead father... talking to his dead father...

You know, the Green Goblin's formula isn't the only thing that can cause mental problems. People who go through traumatic experiences (like a parent dying, to name one of the many stresses Harry is going through) can often become unbalanced.

[surfiiinsafari]

.....well said seeker515!

[Webrina1]

Do you think that Harry if not the Goblin will add anyone who wants to kill him? WHAT if HArry dies in the third- likey or unlikely? WITH all that money he could do som' like the 90's make spider-bots.................or even help out 'liz.'

[seeker515]

Originally posted by surfiiinsafari
.....well said seeker515!
I'm just saying it can easily go either way.

Maybe when Harry recovers from his shock from seeing the face of Peter Parker under the mask of Spider-Man, he will think about all the horrible things Green Goblin (his father) did and get over his hatred of Spider-Man (Peter Parker).

Or it could go the other way. It could add more fuel to his fire. He still hates Spider-Man, but now he has two weapons he can use against him:

The Green Goblin gear that he found in his father's secret room, and the knowlege of who Spider-Man really is.

Peter Parker's weakness is the people who he loves, and Harry knows who those people are and how to get to them.

[Webrina1]

I know Harry was 'jeaslous' of the time Peter spent with his dad.......and all......hmmm.........what if Harry goes out of his mind and is scared of both Spiderman/Peter and his dad.............don't know............

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Webrina1
Do you think that Harry if not the Goblin will add anyone who wants to kill him?
I think Harry will bring someone else who can defeat Spider-Man without meaning to...

I think that Harry will get Dr. Connors to help him with the goblin formula. He can't give Dr. Connors cash because Oscorp is bankrupt after the Octavius fiasco. But Harry tells Dr. Connors what the formula is capable of. Tells him that once the military and other organizations see what it can do, they will pay top dollar for the formula. That will leave Dr. Connors with plenty of money to continue his research on reptiles, in the persuit of human limb regeneration.

Dr. Connors finally accepts and finds a way to administer the formula to Harry (probably can't use the Oscorp equipment as it was probably reposesed when the company went under). There is a problem. There is a slight leak, only it goes un-noticed.

Harry gets the super-strength and the other enhanced abilities and leaves (or maybe it's a dramatic exit like smashing through a wall or something... who knows).

Later, Dr. Connors goes back to his research on the reptiles, only he doesn't realize that the goblin formula leak has infected his lizards. One of the lizards bites him and the combination of the goblin formula and the lizard DNA causes Dr. Connors to become the Lizard.

Harry won't mean to help create the Lizard, and I doubt they will ever really team up (since Lizard is a mindless creature... at least in some versions), but I believe Harry will play a part in Dr. Connors' transformation.

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Webrina1
WHAT if HArry dies in the third- likey or unlikely? WITH all that money he could do som' like the 90's make spider-bots.................or even help out 'liz.'
I hope Harry doesn't die in the third movie. I'm tired of the villain always "dying."... but I don't think Doc Ock is really dead...

Does Harry have money? I thought he said that Oscorp was ruined. Maybe I heard wrong.

[Webrina1]

Wish somone could find a post saying that ock will be back..............or Sam said it or something.........SPOILER>>..hmmm.......yeah what ever happened to badguys in jail? I mean ya Ock was NOW conscious at the end of what he did.......sorry guys spoiler..........so...with his eys open lights off........yeah.....a diffent end but still.........will Peter ever have 'blood' on his hands.........and if so..........would sAM go 'deep' like he did in the sequel or what..........I don't think it was 'deep' with the villians....I know the main character should have alot more but both the villian and the hero should have some deep aspects......I liked knowing about the badgay in the first but the second was kind of 'rushed'........yeah it was nice to know ock and all but still........I wonder if this final one spidey will actually have a death by his part..............mabye Gobby might be predictable but hey.......

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Webrina1
what if Harry goes out of his mind and is scared of both Spiderman/Peter and his dad.............don't know............
Hmm... I can picture him huddled in a corner somewhere shaking. If he has money, maybe he could pay to create a villain. In the comics, didn't JJJ pay cash to have Scorpion created so he could defeat Spidey?

[Webrina1]

YEAH..........if I studied 'phsycology' which I WILL be taking in college soon..........like my first sememster I might learn what people do when they are crazy and shocked my idea.

CONFRONTATION: Peter is Spidey
Scared
Begins to doubt what he saw
Gets angry with Ock'
Scared that Peter is Ock
uhm................
Scared of both
Angry- might want revenge
Confusion
Ect...................so that's why I think.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
Just because something happened in the comics doesn't mean that it will happen that way in the movies...

In the comics, Spidey has web-shooters... ;)

yep. but i was just asking about the events in the comics to maybe get an idea of what might happen in the next movie.
:)

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
I think it was the shock of seeing the face of his friend Peter under the mask of his enemy Spider-Man that kept Harry from killing him.
[...]
Just because Harry dropped the knife doesn't mean that all is forgiven and he and Peter are back to being best friends.

No insanity??? He was having delusions... seeing his dead father... talking to his dead father...


good points seeker515...
i agree that Harry not killing Peter right there and then doesn't mean they are best friends again. BUT finding out that it's Peter behind the mask must make him rethink the whole kill Spider-Man thing. (even if at the end he decides to go and try to kill spidey anyway)

about signs of insanity... i had forgotten the whole conversation with dead Norman. :\ got me there. i must watch the movie again! (this Saturday at the imax--yeah! :D)
but anyway, i'm just saying that Harry's expressions and obsession with Spider-Man are different than his dad's motives and for me don't show enough just yet to make him don the gobby guise. that's just me. something more should happen, even if it's just a scene to show his internal conflict and more signs of insanity. maybe even an evil "with great power comes great responsibility"? like he would owe it to his dad to avenge him?

Harry doesn't seem so over the edge as we saw his dad on the first one. maybe it's just different acting direction... maybe Harry is nuts right now and doesn't express it as much as Norman did... but i just don't see it yet, man.

and don't get me wrong, i do want to see Harry as Green Goblin.

[sguy]

We haven't seen it yet except for him seeing Norman but wait till he drinks the formula. That causes insanity. Also if Norman was experimenting it will porbably be a stronger version Norman took which might lead to his death.

[Kzelk]

What I think is they will be both friend and enemies. Like As Spiderman and GG they are enemies. But I think they'll have to come across each other out of costume at one point or another.

[sguy]

Originally posted by Kzelk
What I think is they will be both friend and enemies. Like As Spiderman and GG they are enemies. But I think they'll have to come across each other out of costume at one point or another.

That's what happened in the comics. Harry did more taunting than talking.

[Kzelk]

Yeah, I wish I had grown up in the old spiderman comics days. I haven't owned 1 spiderman comic. The only comics I have are Spawn. I'm going to buy a bunch of old spiderman books though, when i can find them when I go to the city, cause theres only small little shops here.

[THWIPP!]

this link highlights Green Goblin 2 appearances in the comics.

http://www.samruby.com/Villains/GreenGoblinII/green%20goblins2_history.htm

(i took it from a link provided by lordof on another thread)

[sguy]

Originally posted by Kzelk
Yeah, I wish I had grown up in the old spiderman comics days. I haven't owned 1 spiderman comic. The only comics I have are Spawn. I'm going to buy a bunch of old spiderman books though, when i can find them when I go to the city, cause theres only small little shops here.

Spawn's cool man. The HBO cartoon is coming back. Some old Spidey comics aren't too much. Just the event or appearance ones are.

[Kzelk]

Yeah, they should make a new spawn movie. Just to have soemthing to watch if the spidey cast breaks up.

[sguy]

Originally posted by Kzelk
Yeah, they should make a new spawn movie. Just to have soemthing to watch if the spidey cast breaks up.

A little off topic but I can't wait for Batman and Episode 3 but that's just me.

[Kzelk]

Yeah Batman will be good. I liked episode 1, but i thought episode 2 sucked. I would like to see how that FF movie is gonna turn out.

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
good points seeker515...
i agree that Harry not killing Peter right there and then doesn't mean they are best friends again. BUT finding out that it's Peter behind the mask must make him rethink the whole kill Spider-Man thing. (even if at the end he decides to go and try to kill spidey anyway)
Hmm... I guess I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "rethink." To me, rethink means to completely change your mind about something. It sounds like you were saying Harry would think about his friendship with Peter, think about his hatred for Spider-Man, and it could go either way (I'm guessing that's what you meant because of the even if at the end he decides to go and try to kill spidey anyway you added at the end). If that's what you mean, I completely agree with you there.

I don't think he dropped the knife because he couldn't kill Peter Parker. I think it was the initial shock of seeing Peter under the mask. People don't think rationally when that kind of thing happens. Once he recovers from that shock and everything sinks in, it's very probable that he will still want to kill Spider-Man. Only now, since he knows Spider-Man is Peter Parker, he can easily trap Spidey by using Aunt May and MJ.

But it's also possible that he will realize that his father is a murderer and forgive Peter for doing what he had to do (kill his father) to protect the city. Just because he found the Goblin gear doesn't mean he will use it. That scene could have just been Norman realizing that his fater was the murderous Green Goblin and nothing more than that.

I guess it just depends on how far off the deep end Harry is.
Originally posted by THWIPP!
i'm just saying that Harry's expressions and obsession with Spider-Man are different than his dad's motives and for me don't show enough just yet to make him don the gobby guise.
Norman's original motive was revenge on the people who took over his company and had him removed. He went after those people and murdered them. He wasn't concerned with Spider-Man until Spidey attemted to stop Goblin's rampage.

If Harry does become the second Green Goblin, his motive will be revenge on the person who killed his father. He is obsessed by his hatred for Spider-Man and won't let anything get in the way.

I believe the bond between father and son is much stronger than the bond between friends. You can always get new friends, but you only have one father. Harry's father was killed by the person he thought was his best friend. That's betrayal in Harry's mind.
Originally posted by THWIPP!
something more should happen, even if it's just a scene to show his internal conflict and more signs of insanity. maybe even an evil "with great power comes great responsibility"? like he would owe it to his dad to avenge him?
I think he's already going through tons of stuff: Before Norman died, the two of them were finally getting closer (Norman insisting on driving Harry to the field trip); right when his father was paying attention to him, Norman meets Peter Parker and befriends him, taking his father's attention away; Norman is killed before Harry can rebuild that bond they had; Harry sees Spider-Man over the body of his dead father; Harry takes over his father's company (pretty stressful, I'm sure); The company goes under because of decisions Harry made (bringing in Octavius); Harry sees the face of his best friend under the mask of his worst enemy... All that would send me over the edge. ;)

There are two pivitol events here: seeing Peter Parker, his best friend, under the mask of Spider-Man and finding the Goblin gear. We won't know until the next movie if seeing Peter under the Spidey mask will add fuel to his burning hatred, or help put that fire out. We also won't know if Harry will see the Goblin gear as a tool to finaly destroy his enemy, or if it will resolve his obsession with Spider-Man by showing him the truth about his father.

I believe the last thing his father said to Harry at the end of the second movie before he smashed the mirror to reveal the secret room with the Goblin gear was "Avenge me!" If Harry does go "to the dark side," that is quite a motivation!

Originally posted by THWIPP!
Harry doesn't seem so over the edge as we saw his dad on the first one. maybe it's just different acting direction... maybe Harry is nuts right now and doesn't express it as much as Norman did... but i just don't see it yet, man.
Well, I think it seems different because it's a different form of insanity. It seems like the goblin formula brings on a homicidal mindset. Harry is just unbalanced because of all the stresses he's going through. That's why he doesn't seem over the edge. Taking the goblin formula is what is going to send him over the edge, and make him homicidal, like his father.

And THWIPP!, (...and I guess everyone else who has to read all the stuff I write!) I apologize. I tend to ramble on. I'm certainly not attacking you or anything. I think it's fun to debate these things and you bring up a lot of good points! :D

[Webrina1]

What if Harry tries to kill peter not Spiderman-like killing off the 'source' of something to end the 'voice' of his father like he heard and saw in the mirro.....but then Peter/spiderman does not die and comes back........that would be interesting to see........a choice between friendship or an oath over his father's grave...........hmmm.........seeker what do you think?

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Webrina1
What if Harry tries to kill peter not Spiderman-like killing off the 'source' of something to end the 'voice' of his father like he heard and saw in the mirro.....but then Peter/spiderman does not die and comes back........that would be interesting to see........a choice between friendship or an oath over his father's grave...........hmmm.........seeker what do you think?
Do you mean what if Harry goes after Peter and not Spider-Man?

Maybe something like a get-together with Aunt May, MJ, Peter and Harry. Everyone is laughing and having a good time, when Harry pulls out a pumpkin bomb. He's got nothing left to live for except killing Spider-Man, and he'd be able to take out the people Peter loves most at the same time (Now that's revenge!).

... but that's not killing Peter and not Spider-Man...

I guess I don't understand how Harry could do that since he knows Peter and Spidey are the same person...

Your idea sounds interesting though, Webrina1. Please explain it a little more. Thanks!

[Webrina1]

What I mean is NORMAN knew to attack the 'heart' if Harry wants his friend and wants to please his dad and his friend- attack Peter's mind.......have him give up the 'responsiblity'........not be 'bad' in a sense but by doing that it would 'kill' spider-man in a 'sybmolic' sense.....like choosing between HArry's sanity by not being spidey and by being spidey SPIDEY WILL LOOSE HARRy- make it another 'challenging choose'... Person to Spidey/peter............it would still use the 'sacrifice' and 'choice' themes........like 'if you cared so much you woulnd't be him.' If Peter says yes- Norman can't HAVE his revenge and harry doesn't have to do his 'oath' cause IF PETER is not Spidey then spidey's as good as dead...(WHICH won't happen.....but hey it's an idea.) I hope that helped you......sorry..sometimes it's hard to explain what I want to get across.

[seeker515]

I think I see what you are saying.

So Harry wouldn't physically kill Spider-Man (like with a knife), but would make Peter make a choice:

Peter could either give up being Spider-Man if he wanted end Harry's insanity and keep their friendship, or continue being Spider-Man and have the responsibility of Harry's insanity and the loss of Harry's friendship on his conscience.

If Peter chose to quit being Spider-Man to save Harry, Spider-Man would in a sense be dead.

That's a really cool idea, Webrina1!

[Webrina1]

THANK YOU! YES......I was hoping you would get it.......like with NORMAN and the 'heart' it' with Peter's mind- his conscious....you don't think that after another person died on the fourth floor after he had saved the little girl that he thought about somone else dying BY his choice......either way he has to make one.................thanks!

[Deadpool14]

Originally posted by OctoShock

Oh, and how do you get little quotes and pictures down here? [/B]

Yo, to quote hit the quote button on the bottom of the person's post that you want to quote. For pitures: go to the very top of the board click profile, then Edit profile then in the box labeled signature type picture's address Then the next time you post you'll have a picture as you signature!

[spideymoviegirl]

hi i'm just joining in on this thread. hmm..let's see...i really wanna come to something close to a conclusion with this whole Harry/Green Goblin business. so let's take a look: at the end of Spiderman 2 poor Harry Osborn has no girlfriend, no best friend, no father, and no huge, moneymaking, breakthrough project from a brilliant scientist. to me, that totally screams out that all he's got left is his father's Green Goblin lair. though i'm a major Spiderman movie fan i must confess that i've never read a single Spiderman comic book entirely so i don't know what happens to Harry in the comics, so someone help me out with a possible conclusion for the movie! ;)

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by Webrina1
...like choosing between HArry's sanity by not being spidey and by being spidey SPIDEY WILL LOOSE HARRy- ...

woah... nice one Webrina! and that's an example of what I would like to see in the next one: Harry and Peter talking it out as... well... Harry and Peter (not Spider-Man and Green Goblin). Harry with a lot of resentment, contained rage, etc., but not full-blown insanity quite yet. THEN having something else happening to make Harry become the GG. It's really interesting what you propose: Harry giving Peter the choice!

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
And THWIPP!, [...]I'm certainly not attacking you or anything. I think it's fun to debate these things [...]

not to worry seeker, i know it's all in good fun. (hey, there has been no name calling so far!):D
and i like to play devil's advocate some times too to keep the debate going.

man, now i don't know where to start to address your post!;)

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
man, now i don't know where to start to address your post!;)
Ha! Yeah, it's a pretty long one! :D

I'm just excited because before I came to these boards, I just assumed that Harry would become the next Green Goblin, but reading other people's posts made me see that there is another side to it and he could just as easily not follow in the footsteps of his father and forgive Peter/Spidey for doing what he had to do (kill his murderous father).

For me, there is enough there right now for it to go either way, and that's why I love these movies so much!

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
Hmm... I guess I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "rethink."
rethink: for me it's to 'think again'. you know, for Harry to go back to square one and think again what he wants to do; not necessarily to change his mind but to go through the thought process again.


Originally posted by seeker515
I believe the last thing his father said to Harry at the end of the second movie before he smashed the mirror to reveal the secret room with the Goblin gear was "Avenge me!" If Harry does go "to the dark side," that is quite a motivation!

man... I REALLY need to see the movie again! (couldn't go to the imax this weekend). anyway, if he really heard his father saying "avenge me" and we know that what he sees and hears is a projection of what is on his mind--then his mind is telling him to avenge his father. but, does he have to? and does he have to do it as the green goblin? there is no clear indication that he will become the green goblin--or that he feels that he needs to become the green goblin. now he knows he can, but he doesn't need to. still, first he has to choose to avenge his dad's death or not at the price of his friend's life.

Originally posted by seeker515

Harry is just unbalanced because of all the stresses he's going through. [...]Taking the goblin formula is what is going to send him over the edge, and make him homicidal, like his father.
ok... but why would he take the formula in the first place if he didn't want to be 'homicidal'? unless you're implying that he takes the formula by accident and THEN chooses to become the goblin. that would be in line with one of my first points: something else needs to happen before Harry becomes the GG. but if he takes it voluntarily then he has already chosen to become the goblin.

[THWIPP!]

ok, some of many possibilities:

1) Harry chooses to avenge his father's death. If so, will he become the Green Goblin?

The other way around would be:
2) Harry becomes the goblin "by accident" and the insanity associated with that change "helps" his decision to go after Spidey much easier!

3) Harry gets psychological (or psychiatrical?)... er... anyway... he gets HELP and learns to forgive Peter after much reflection... and Prozac. :D

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by spideymoviegirl
though i'm a major Spiderman movie fan i must confess that i've never read a single Spiderman comic book entirely so i don't know what happens to Harry in the comics, so someone help me out with a possible conclusion for the movie! ;)

welcome to the thread spideymoviegirl. here is a link that takes you to a summary of Harry / Green Goblin II in the comics. hope it helps you in coming up with your possible conclusion. ;) Let me know if the link works.

http://www.samruby.com/Villains/GreenGoblinII/green%20goblins2_history.htm

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
then his mind is telling him to avenge his father. but, does he have to? and does he have to do it as the green goblin? there is no clear indication that he will become the green goblin--or that he feels that he needs to become the green goblin. now he knows he can, but he doesn't need to. still, first he has to choose to avenge his dad's death or not at the price of his friend's life.

He definitely has a choice to make. I didn't see that before I came to these boards.

I think if he does choose to avenge his father, the Goblin gear is the perfect tool to use. He has seen in person what the glider and the battle suit can do (in the first movie), and he probably knows something about the performance enhancers his father was working on as well.

Plus, how fitting to avenge the death of his father in the guise of the Green Goblin... the same costume his father was wearing when he was killed by Spider-Man (well... not the same costume... probably ruined with the big glider-shaped hole through the middle ;)). Poetic justice.

Originally posted by THWIPP!
ok... but why would he take the formula in the first place if he didn't want to be 'homicidal'? unless you're implying that he takes the formula by accident and THEN chooses to become the goblin. that would be in line with one of my first points: something else needs to happen before Harry becomes the GG. but if he takes it voluntarily then he has already chosen to become the goblin.
If Harry does still want to avenge the death of his father by killing Spider-Man, he won't worry about the side effects of the performance enhancers. He may not know about them, or he could have pieced it together by seeing the effect the drug had on his father.

I think I used "homicidal" incorrectly, and that probaby confused things. When I say homicidal I'm looking at it like the differene between a murderer and a homicidal maniac. I see a murderer having a specific target (Harry's target is Spider-Man). A homicidal maniac may have a specific target, but if other people are killed in the process, it's not a problem (Norman killing the Oscorp execs in the first movie, but nearly killing all the people below in the process). Harry wants to kill Spider-Man, but doesn't want to hurt anyone else right now. Killing Spider-Man is enough. He doesn't need the homicidal maniac effects of the drug to want to kill him. He wants to avenge the death of his father.

I wasn't implying that Harry didn't want the homicidal side effects of the performance enhancers, because using the real definition of the word (not my own little definition ;)), he is already homicidal if he wants to kill another person (Spider-Man). I was just pointing out that Harry and Norman's mental inbalances are different. Norman's homicidal streak was caused by the formula. Norman's delusions are caused by all the stresses he is going through and his obsession and hatred of Spider-Man. He wants to kill Spider-Man to avenge the death of his father.

I'm saying if he decides to avenge his father, he is already obsessed with Spider-Man, is already mentally unbalanced, and will see the performance enhancers and the Goblin gear as the only way he can go toe-to-toe with Spider-Man and destroy him.

He will take the performance enhancers, and they will probably have the same homicidal maniac side effects as they had with Norman, which would only intensify the burning hate he has for Spider-Man. Like throwing gasoline on a fire.

[Webrina1]

I wonder if Harry will be for 'fearful' then angry.....if it was just some Joe smoee of the street and he jumped out and didn't get stabbed that would be diffrent..........heck put yourself in the minset of the character.............your bestfriend the one you trusted like a brother....parades around as hero -even helping you and the city out-, leaves life as two people not to mention as a friend to you......once Harry knows it must also be harder on peter- or lesss......I think harry is more 'shocked' and scared......he knows that he can't kill his friend.......but really happpend.......a heart to heart chat needs to happen in the third it a DISH OF the 'insane voice of dad's plus a pinch of Goblin formulas- BOOOM instant villian.....makes him CHOOSE -mentally not physically like his dad did with Mj and the kids on the- what the heck was that....thing..whatever-. so there you go...............:D

[black_cat42]

In the comics Harry first attempts his revenge by blowing up Peter's apartment. (W/ Peter and MJ present) When that fails he decides that he should kill him execution style because the betrayal was much too personal...

Peter: Let's make this short, Harry. I don't want to hurt you!
Harry: How kind of you to say so-- when we both know that's not the truth! All you've ever wanted to do is hurt me Parker-- I know that now. At first, it disturbed me. I thought you were my friend. But how could a cold-blooded murderer be any friend of mine? It was not possible. And since it was not possible-- it was obvious you were never my friend!
(Dialogue from the comics- confrontation between Spidey and the Goblin)


Oh, and anyone else notice that Peter's running out of friends. :(

[Starlight1534]

Interesting points. I'm really enjoying reading all of this.

And since I'm here, this is the way I see it:
Not regarding whatever mental state Harry is in when talking to Norman, he made a choice not to kill Peter (Norman: "Avenge me!", Harry: "No!"). BUT then he throws the knife and discovers the truth...

Now he's got two options: He can stick with his original statement, and not go after Peter, or he can take advantage of the situation.

Personally, I'd like to see him as GG2, I think it would make for an interesting character struggle for Peter. Should/could he fight/kill his own best friend?

I can't wait. :D

[Webrina1]

Originally posted by black_cat42
In the comics Harry first attempts his revenge by blowing up Peter's apartment. (W/ Peter and MJ present) When that fails he decides that he should kill him execution style because the betrayal was much too personal...

Peter: Let's make this short, Harry. I don't want to hurt you!
Harry: How kind of you to say so-- when we both know that's not the truth! All you've ever wanted to do is hurt me Parker-- I know that now. At first, it disturbed me. I thought you were my friend. But how could a cold-blooded murderer be any friend of mine? It was not possible. And since it was not possible-- it was obvious you were never my friend!
(Dialogue from the comics)


Oh, and anyone else notice that Peter's running out of friends. :( qoutes ah? Hmm......what issue what date? THIS IS interesting.

[Kzelk]

Originally posted by sguy
We haven't seen it yet except for him seeing Norman but wait till he drinks the formula. That causes insanity. Also if Norman was experimenting it will porbably be a stronger version Norman took which might lead to his death.

He seemed pretty insane already, seeing his dad in the mirror talking to him and all.

[black_cat42]

I've got Essential Spiderman reprints. These are from #6.
Parker's apartment gets blown up in Amazing Spider-man #136 Sept "The Green Goblin Lives Again!"

The quotes are from Amazing Spider-man #137 "Death Trap Times Three." I think they're 1974.

[Webrina1]

WOAH......................you'll never belive this..over at the super buu's site.......for several days we made some rpg games and off the top of my head and the players we made up what we thought could be SM3 with Harry and ect..........but we thought about how the characters would react and I put som' like Harry not wanting to hurt Peter but thinks he is a killer and then sexyspidergirl did the same with Peter saying he doens't want to hurt harry...werid.....it JUST freaked us out.......we got to 'deep' with the characters.....scary really.........hehheeh.....but cool......so It's a real issue......never knew that........crazy. THANKS for telling us.

[spideymoviegirl]

thanx for the link THWIPP!. now i've got the facts :D wow such a sad thing that Harry eventually dies..i guess that might be his fate in the movies too..because...........HE'S DEFINITELY GONNA BECOME THE GREEN GOBLIN II MUHAHAHA (not necessarily in Spiderman 3 though). yup that's my conclusion. thanx!

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Starlight1534
Not regarding whatever mental state Harry is in when talking to Norman, he made a choice not to kill Peter (Norman: "Avenge me!", Harry: "No!")
Hmmm... I guess I really need to see the movie again! I forgot that Harry yelled back "NO!" after his visions of Norman told Harry to avenge him... I thought he had just screamed. That kinda changes things for me. In that case, I don't think he will return as the Green Goblin. Not unless something else happens as THWIPP! said.

Before I realized he had told his father no, I thought there was enough there (Harry under a lot of stress, his obsession with Spider-Man, and his resulting delusions) to make Harry want to become the Green Goblin.

I also thought there was enough there to make Harry let go of all that hatred he had for Spider-Man (finding the Goblin gear could just be how Harry finds out the truth about his father being a murderous menace and nothing more than that).

I didn't think that Harry seeing Peter Parker under the mask of Spider-Man was enough to sway him from his desire to kill Spider-Man, the person who murdered his father (remember, this is before he finds the Goblin gear in the secret room), no matter who was behind the Spidey mask. I still think that he dropped the knife out of shock alone. I don't think the decision not to kill Peter Paker was made then. He was shocked and confused.

However, in the time between when Spider-Man left and when Harry saw his father in the mirror, I now believe he must have had time to think about everything, and decided to let go of his hatred for Spider-Man/Peter Parker if he told his father no. That shows he made his decision...

Or maybe that "NO!" was just him freaking out; maybe realizing he was going insane refusing to accept that it was happening to him. Maybe smashing the mirror wasn't a denial of his father's wishes, but just an attempt to get rid of the visions he was having. I mean, we knew he was already crazy with his obsession with Spider-Man, but I'm sure it seemed perfectly normal to him, so he didn't realize anything was wrong with him. But, it's pretty hard to accept visions of a dead person appearing before you. That's an undeniable sign that you are insane. Maybe that's what he was refusing to accept...

Arggh! I think I'm going a little crazy thinking about all of this! ;)

[punchline]

i believe that Harry will be after peter and be seen as a bad guy then right near the end spidey's about to die for some reason and then Harry saves him and maybe Harry gets killed off. Also because Harry finds out the truth about his dad he begins to hate him and decides he'd rather die a hero then follow his dads footsteps. Just my theory.

~1~

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
Plus, how fitting to avenge the death of his father in the guise of the Green Goblin... the same costume his father was wearing when he was killed by Spider-Man [...]
I'm saying if he decides to avenge his father, he is already obsessed with Spider-Man, is already mentally unbalanced, and will see the performance enhancers and the Goblin gear as the only way he can go toe-to-toe with Spider-Man and destroy him.


Ok seeker, lets say Harry decides to avenge his father after all by killing Spider-Man. Defeating spidey as the goblin would be the best way of avenging his father in a "hands-on" kind of way. BUT, Harry still has the option of hiring someone else to do it. He knows it's a good option: Doc Ock did a pretty good job of delivering Spider-Man all gift-wrapped and ready for execution.

(now another far-fetched option begins...) ;)

Hmm... but Harry lost a lot of money... how could he afford to hire a supervillain?
...by becoming the goblin and stealing the money!

Ok... so he steals some money, hires somebody to kill spidey... then, after a spectacular battle between the hired guy and spider-man, just when the new villain is about to deliver a death-blow to a defeated, unmasked spidey... Harry, who was ring-side, sees Peter's face, is moved by his friendship memories and decides to back out of the whole thing! <sniff>
Then the battle is between the goblin and villain #2 ending with the death of Harry. :o

[man... i knew i shouldn't have had that second cup of coffee this morning...]

Anyway, that's just another possibility that started out with me trying to point out that EVEN IF Harry wanted to avenge his father by killing Spider-Man, he doesn't have to become GG2. I know, then I screwed up my point by having him become the goblin anyway... I got carried away and I guess I really want to see Harry as the goblin.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by punchline
[...] near the end spidey's about to die for some reason and then Harry saves him and maybe Harry gets killed off. [...]

D'oh! You beat me to my post, punchline. I thought I was being original-- that kinda sucks! :D But yeah, as you and I pointed out, it would be a nice option to have Harry save Peter at the end and die in the process. It seems in line with the idea in the comics.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
Arggh! I think I'm going a little crazy thinking about all of this! ;)
Just don't go throwing daggers at mirrors yet, seeker. :D

Going back to the thread...
Still, I think the best option so far is for Peter and Harry to talk about what happened. Webrina made a great suggestion of having Harry ask Peter to stop being Spider-Man. But first, we have to see more of Harry's reaction after finding the goblin's hidden lair. This probably is another step towards insanity for Harry and definitely will affect how Harry and Peter interact the next time they meet. (And Starlight1534 thanks for pointing out that Harry yells out "No!" before throwing the knife at the mirror!).

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
Ok seeker, lets say Harry decides to avenge his father after all by killing Spider-Man. Defeating spidey as the goblin would be the best way of avenging his father in a "hands-on" kind of way. BUT, Harry still has the option of hiring someone else to do it. He knows it's a good option: Doc Ock did a pretty good job of delivering Spider-Man all gift-wrapped and ready for execution.
Lets say that Harry does have money left. Then, yes, he does have the option to hire someone. But then are we just supposed to forget the scene at the end where Harry finds the Gobin gear? That whole scene would mean nothing. That scene was there for a reason. Either to show how Harry will get revenge on Spider-Man, or to show Harry the truth about his father and to allow him to let go of his hatred for Spider-Man/Peter Parker. He hired Doc Ock before he found the Goblin gear, so if he again hired another villain to go after Spidey after, it's like finding all the Goblin stuff had no impact on Harry.
Originally posted by THWIPP!
(now another far-fetched option begins...) ;)

Hmm... but Harry lost a lot of money... how could he afford to hire a supervillain?
...by becoming the goblin and stealing the money!
But if he became the Goblin, why just steal money to hire someone else to kill Spider-Man? He would have the tools to do it himself. I believe he hired Doctor Octopus becasue he couldn't handle Spider-Man on his own. I think his hate is so strong, that he would definitely go after Spider-Man himself if he had the power to do so. The Goblin formula and gear would give him that power. Harry wants to kill Spider-Man himself. If he didn't, he would have told Doctor Octopus to kill him. But he didn't. He told Doc Ock to bring Spider-Man to him so he could finish him off himself.
Originally posted by THWIPP!
Ok... so he steals some money, hires somebody to kill spidey... then, after a spectacular battle between the hired guy and spider-man, just when the new villain is about to deliver a death-blow to a defeated, unmasked spidey...
Oh no! Spider-Man shows yet another person he is Peter Parker! ;)
Originally posted by THWIPP!
Harry, who was ring-side, sees Peter's face, is moved by his friendship memories and decides to back out of the whole thing! <sniff>
Then the battle is between the goblin and villain #2 ending with the death of Harry.
I was kidding before, but then Villain #2 would know Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Norman knew, but he's dead. Octavius knew but he's dead. MJ knows, but she won't tell anyone. Harry knows, but in this scenario he's dead. But if this Villain #2 found out, I'm sure he'd blab Spider-Man's secret to the cops and to everyone who would listen. He'd basically kill Spider-Man in another way... by revealing his true identity. Originally posted by THWIPP!
I got carried away and I guess I really want to see Harry as the goblin.
I do too!

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
Just don't go throwing daggers at mirrors yet, seeker.
Ha! I'm not that far... yet. :D
Originally posted by THWIPP!
Going back to the thread...
Still, I think the best option so far is for Peter and Harry to talk about what happened. Webrina made a great suggestion of having Harry ask Peter to stop being Spider-Man.
I loved this idea too... like killing Spider-Man by making Peter choose not to be him anymore. Pretty cool twist!
Originally posted by THWIPP!
But first, we have to see more of Harry's reaction after finding the goblin's hidden lair. This probably is another step towards insanity for Harry and definitely will affect how Harry and Peter interact the next time they meet.
You know how I feel about this, so I won't write anything else here... ;)

[Webrina1]

You think before Harry becomes 'Green Goblin2 or changes his name to Hobgoblin he'll research some old legends and name himself after it? Just wondering.....as well as reaserches their friendship......like goes to visit Peter in his apartment for some heart to heart talk or that would be WAY to hard for Harry to do.....anyone got some old issues of what WE Could expect THAT might happen...heck several issues like the 'Spider-man no more'.....and others Sam Drew from.....I wonder what others he drew from. I wanna know..another 'green goblin' would be like repeating a 'villian' unless he goes with the 'Hobgolin' or 'Orange Goblin' or som'....maybe that pumkin guy......

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
But if he became the Goblin, why just steal money to hire someone else to kill Spider-Man? He would have the tools to do it himself. I believe he hired Doctor Octopus becasue he couldn't handle Spider-Man on his own.
Yes, that's why he hired Doc Ock at that time. I was suggesting he hire someone else to kill him because now he knows who Spider-Man is and that becomes a dilemma for him. The theory is that it would be harder for him to accept killing Peter than it was to kill a faceless Spider-Man. By hiring someone else, he gets rid of Spider-Man but doesn't get his hands dirty in Peter's death (in his mind). Just pointing out another option...

For that option I was assuming Harry has no more money and pointed out that a way to get the money would be by using the Green Goblin stuff. But ok, then lets not get him in costume. Look at it this way: what if Harry helps a new villain get Spider-Man? Harry knows spidey's secret identity and could point any bad guy in the right direction. He could affect Spider-Man's death, but not in a direct way.

Or yet another one: Harry turns in Peter to the police accused of killing his father. Hum... strike that one. It wouldn't work because then everyone would also know that Norman was the Green Goblin.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by Webrina1
[...]like goes to visit Peter in his apartment for some heart to heart talk or that would be WAY to hard for Harry to do[...]
Yeah, I don't know how would they get to talking in the first place? Probably Peter would be the one to go looking for Harry. Maybe even MJ gets involved and tries to intervene.

[Webrina1]

YOU think Harry would like to heart to heart chat or would run away..........or be afraid or angry at spidey/Peter...........

WHAT about this......Harry was so shocked his mind SPLIT making him think Spider-man and Peter are two diffrent people and that Peter was posing as Spider-man in the first place........besides THE CAMERA does not show Peter spinning webs infront of him just escaping....EVEN I would think that is some 'trick metal rope' like in some 'gag' store.........

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
Yes, that's why he hired Doc Ock at that time. I was suggesting he hire someone else to kill him because now he knows who Spider-Man is and that becomes a dilemma for him. The theory is that it would be harder for him to accept killing Peter than it was to kill a faceless Spider-Man. By hiring someone else, he gets rid of Spider-Man but doesn't get his hands dirty in Peter's death (in his mind). Just pointing out another option...

Look at it this way: what if Harry helps a new villain get Spider-Man? Harry knows spidey's secret identity and could point any bad guy in the right direction. He could affect Spider-Man's death, but not in a direct way.
I agree these things very possible.

My point here is that this would totally ignore the scene where Harry found his father's Goblin gear in the secret room.

They spent too long on that for it to just be ignored. It has to mean something, and the two most probably conclusions are that either Harry will either find a way to use the Goblin gear and formula to transform himself into the second Green Goblin (which I thought was the only possiblity until I came to these boards), or that Harry will realize the truth about his father and let go of all that hate for Spider-Man/Peter Parker (something I hadn't even thought of until I came to these boards, and I believe it was this thread that showed me that possibility!).

If he goes back to hiring villains to do his dirty work, like he did before he found his father's stash of Goblin gear, it really takes away from that whole scene. It totally takes away from its impact.

I think that scene was too important to be ignored.

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Webrina1
WHAT about this......Harry was so shocked his mind SPLIT making him think Spider-man and Peter are two diffrent people and that Peter was posing as Spider-man in the first place........
Let's use your Harry's mind splitting idea. What if something like this happens:

His mind splits and he suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder. This way he can be both Harry Osborn and the Green Goblin. Harry can still be friends with Peter Paker and won't have any memories of what the Green Goblin does (and won't have any memories of taking the Goblin formula either), and the Green Goblin won't know that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. But then maybe something could happen to Harry that would merge his two personalities, making him Spider-Man's ultimate villain... all the powers of the Green Goblin but the knowledge of Spider-Man's secret identity and who his loved ones are.

One problem could be that Harry would certainly notice the effects of the performance enhancers (increased strength), but in a psychology class I took, we heard about a person with Multiple Personality Disorder breaking her leg, but walking on it when another personality took over. Maybe since the break didn't happen while the second personality was in control, the pain didn't register in the girl's mind. So maybe with Harry, he would't have the increased strength of the Green Goblin when his personality is in control.

[Webrina1]

WOW! THAT IS FREAKY! I'm going to be taking phsyc' I can't spell worth beans........but I'll be taking that.....and input more....YOU THINK it would be repeating that theme......NOrman did wake up after being GG..........then GG came back in the end.....very confusing person......but from the 'shock' his mind will split......UNLESS he spies Peter in some alley as GG2 NOW KNOWING it is true.........unless Sam Raimi wants to have some kind of 'Bevis and Butt-head or Dude Where's my car- them and have Peter impress Harry with being spiderman.

[Kzelk]

In the comics didn't Harry die from some poison strength enhancer formula?

[Webrina1]

I don't know......when I was a kid I read alot of comics........but I....um...don't remember much......Harry died trying to save Peter in Spectacular Spider-man #200....but I'm not sure if it was that which made him get ill and die.

[seeker515]

Originally posted by Webrina1
YOU THINK it would be repeating that theme......NOrman did wake up after being GG..........then GG came back in the end
That could be, but I didn't see Norman as having a Multiple Personality Disorder type of condition. I got the feeling that when we saw Norman after he took the Goblin formula, he was just trying to act normal, but it didn't quite work (like how rude he was to MJ during Thanksgiving dinner at Harry and Peter's for example... he was a very nice guy before he took the formula... insisting on driving Harry to the field trip at the beginning). Norman knew that he was the Green Goblin and remembered everything that happened (when he saw the cuts on Peter's arm during that Thanksgiving dinner, he made the connection that Peter was probably Spider-Man).

I think with Harry's mind splitting, he won't know he is the Green Goblin. It would be a whole different personality.

But that's just what I think. The whole Harry's mind splitting thing was your idea, and a really interesting one! :D

[Webrina1]

So It could be a re-born idea of Dr. Jeykll and Mr. Hyde not knowing what he does at night...........hmmm....interesting. I think it would be still 'repeating' unless somoe else....thinks diffrently.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by Kzelk
In the comics didn't Harry die from some poison strength enhancer formula?
i know the formula was killing him and that he died after saving peter. i don't know if it was the blast/fire that killed him or the formula.

now that you metion the comics... do we know in the comics how and why does Harry become Green Goblin 2?

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by seeker515
That could be, but I didn't see Norman as having a Multiple Personality Disorder type of condition.
I believe that in the first movie initially Norman is not aware that he is the Green Goblin. There are two personalities. Then there's that "Smeagol/Gollum" type scene with Norman and his reflection in the mirror when after talking to each other (to himself, really) both personalities merge into one consciousness.
I agree that the same split personality thing could happen to Harry, but it would be too similar to the first movie in my opinion.

[seeker515]

Originally posted by THWIPP!
I believe that in the first movie initially Norman is not aware that he is the Green Goblin. There are two personalities. Then there's that "Smeagol/Gollum" type scene with Norman and his reflection in the mirror when after talking to each other (to himself, really) both personalities merge into one consciousness.
I agree that the same split personality thing could happen to Harry, but it would be too similar to the first movie in my opinion.
Yeah, good point. I forgot about that scene with Norman talking to himself. I think his personalities did merge after that, but you are right, at first he didn't know he was the Green Goblin.

Hey! It's a short post from me! :D

[black_cat42]

In the comics, Harry is already unstable before his father’s death. Perhaps as a desperate act to get his father’s attention, he starts taking drugs (LSD). He ends up with brain damage- schizophrenia. In the meantime his father under the stress of having his son so ill and his business failing remembers he is the Green Goblin, and Peter’s secret, kills Gwen Stacy, and accidently impales himself on his glider. Harry was somehow there to witness his father’s death, and blames Spider-man for it. In the comic, it is Harry that hides Norman’s secret. Harry later dons the costume, trains for a bit then goes after Spider-man. Though he doesn’t then take the performance enhancers. He is defeated, Peter hides his secret and Harry is committed. He suffers amnesia of those events. He tries to live a normal life. He has a family… And later Hobgoblin comes and messes that up, threatening his family because he wants the formula, and he has to become the Goblin again in order to protect them. Later in life because of his guilty conscious at what he now remembers, he takes the performance enhancers and goes after Spider-man.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by black_cat42
In the comics, Harry is already unstable before his father’s death. Perhaps as a desperate act to get his father’s attention, he starts taking drugs
With all that has happened to Harry it is possible that he ends up in drugs. And drugs could be a reason to push Harry into becoming the goblin.
I think it's an interesting story point and a possibility for this character, but I don't believe that the director will go that way and include that in the movie. Kids still go see Spider-Man movies and I'm guessing parents would oppose to "drugs in a super-hero flick". Parents are funny that way. Plus I don't think a super-poseable red-eye Harry action figure with 'joint' accessory would sell too well (then again, there's a market for everything!).

[UnbearableLight]

What can I possibly add to this?

Wonderful thread.

I do hope Harry doesn't die to soon. Having an enemy that was a friend will be rather hard on Peter.

Should be noted Harry has part of his father's fortune. Harry may try make things miserable for Peter in real life. Maybe even get together with Peter's editor Jame Jonah Jamison. Between the two of them they might work to ruin Spiderman's reputation as a good doer.

What would realy be cool would be for M.J to save Peters life just before Harry tried to kill him. Harry goes to jail. Harry acts as a model prisinor while secretly hating Peter. Peter even gets the notion that things are all patched up.


Meanwhile Peter thinks Harry has forgivin him. Harry secretly plots a exquisite revenge. Harry as Green Goblin pretending to be Spiderman might commit all kinds of evil acts while disguised as Spiderman. Of course the newspaper editor would love this.

Harry plots with the goal of first making Spiderman appear to be an evil doer, then try to appear as the city's savior as the good green goblin who will save the city from the evil Spiderman.

In the end Harry escapes, but is badly scarred and can no longer be just Harry cause now Harry is wanted for mass destruction of innocent lives. Peter is badly injured and the only reason he does not die is cause Mary Jane saves him once more and takes Peter to a hospital.

Poor Peter will wonder perhaps if he should have killed Harry (the green goblin) while he could.

Anyway most of the ideas in this thread are better than mine. :)

Especialy Webrina1's

[Webrina1]

>>>Anyway most of the ideas in this thread are better than mine.

Especialy Webrina1's<<<<
Don't make me blush............I actually thought of something.....I am a writter it's what I do......try to see conflicts of characters........you want deep thinking COME Join alot of us Super buu's site........I have already established alot there for HArry and what he will do....thank you anyway....here is the site....nonone has claimed AZIZ.....Aunt May and others......

http://spiderman2.homestead.com/sp2.html



Characters not taken:

http://spiderman2.homestead.com/quickyguide.html

[suspence__]

goes crazy

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by suspence__
goes crazy
but what do you think? does he become the goblin or not?

[venom123456789]

I dont remeber Harry being a goblin though. I know that Norman Osborne was the Green Goblin. And from the comics, John Jameson was the HobGoblin. Harry I have a feeling will be a friend or will never want to see Peter again. As far as the goblin goes, I dont think Harry is going to be one.

[THWIPP!]

Originally posted by venom123456789
I dont remeber Harry being a goblin though. I know that Norman Osborne was the Green Goblin. And from the comics, John Jameson was the HobGoblin. Harry I have a feeling will be a friend or will never want to see Peter again. As far as the goblin goes, I dont think Harry is going to be one.

Well this could be a spoiler for you venom123456789--but if you choose to, you can follow this link to a cover that clears up what happens in the comics.

http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider-ManF/Large/AmazSpid136.JPG

Then again, if something happened in the comics doesn't mean it will happen in the movies.

I'm curious. Why do you think Harry will not become a goblin?

[Nicko9884]

Hi Fi: http://www.freewebs.com/mafos69/spiderman3trailer.htm

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_-GGwHcW8

[Killer Symbiote]

:confused: Hi Fi: http://www.freewebs.com/mafos69/spiderman3trailer.htm

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_-GGwHcW8
Cool trailer but....why bump this topic???

[King-Kong]

Hi Fi: http://www.freewebs.com/mafos69/spiderman3trailer.htm

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_-GGwHcW8

That thread you reponded to was from 04